5th paragraph down...

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/muscle_cars/2010_chevrolet_camaro_car_news

I specifically asked how a Camaro 5.7L compares to the vehicles listed above? Should I abandon my CTS because the BMW's use a Inline 6, or because BMW has iDrive? The point is the Camaro is not a piece of garbage when compared to vehicles in its respective category i.e. Ford Mustang.

The Corvette chassis was developed by GM not a "reversed engineered" Lotus chassis. Show me a modern era Lotus that has the engine in the front that would serve as the chassis GM "reverse engineered". Please stop talking out the "Exit Only" part of your body.  

Thank you for the excerpt I'll ask my brother for his opinion on it later.... Well on your specifics; You only mentioned a Mercedes Benz. European cars can make more power out of a smaller displacement engine and if they need more they don't invent the "Big Block" they divide the weight of the pistons and go from 8 to 12 cylinders to keep the rotational inertia down and don't have to end up stuck with a long stroke engine which is useful from low to mid RPMs. On your CTS....Well its pretty much a Saab...The steering wheel is from a Saab, the seat belt is from a Saab, and I think the Sat-Nav is from a Saab.... Against a BMW? Uhm... I think if you could afford a Cadillac I think you could afford the new M3 which comes with a 4.0 400hp V8 engine pumping out 8,400RMP. Oh yeah that's 100hp per liter in a V8.....
    I think in 75 GM bought Lotus and used some of their prototype chassis' to replace I think it was the Stingray design. Except they kept those nasty 18th century ox-cart contraptions they call leaf-springs until.... Well when did the new Z06 come out?  We can sit here and argue a while and find out some trivial weaknesses on our arguments, but isn't this a bit old? How many times must this argument continue?

To put a nail on the seamlessly never ending coffin goes this: Japanese automakers copy European ones and offer them at a lower price, with the same if not better quality and reliability. American cars had a different evolutionary chain and the muscle car died out and now is the S.U.V. Now they copy the Japanese in their ways and offer things like the Z06 which is an affordable replica of a Ferrari 575. (In which they both look alike, both pump out 500hp, both do the same thing except the Vette is a lot cheaper.)




 

Ah guys the new Camaro and Corvette do not share the same chassis. The only thing that related the two is both use an LS3 v8. The camaro is based off a shortend G8 Platform and the corvette is its own chasis. (hence the vette uses transverse leaf springs and and a shock and the camaro has macpherson struts up front). People people get all the information before you jump to conclusions.  

I just spoke to my brother and said that the provider who gave him the manuals says that it is based on the Z06. I asked him about the G8 chassis and he just shook his head and said. "It has nothing to do with those." I told him if he was sure; he just replied "I worked on those and their not it. The Camaro is just based on the Z06."  We'll just see when it comes into production....


Oh the new Z06 does not use leaf-springs.....  

Wait!... I just saw the new episode of Top Gear and they say its just a vauxhall VXR!!! So WTF?!!!! And they too said it was going to be horrible.....  







I mean if it was a Vette chassis well it would be "Well I guess they're out of money..." But a Vauxhall?! Who would drive that?! Imagine telling that to somebody when your at the lights waiting for it to go green. "Yeah its says Chevy...But its made in Australia!..." EW!  

Where's the picture editing when you need it....  

Australia is practically the only car manufacturing nation on earth to stick with grass roots v8 rear drive platforms and evolve them to the point where GM needs their help with new RWD offerings. The Corvette is probably the good deal it is because its a dedicated platform, it doesn't share platform components with lesser cars with cheap parts that don't sell.

I also remember reading that GM has authorized production of the new el camino thing. Subaru tried that and it didnt work (remember the Baja? neither do i).

and GM owner with the clever retorts (sincerely), Chevy will never let the Camaro touch the Corvettes level of performance, and from the factory it will be hindered by that. Aftermarket companies might step in to close the gap. If they don't make it a beautiful car, it wont sell. The rest is variable.  

Proof that it[the corvette c6] does indeed have leaf springs( it is only one leaf  per axle though) and they are mounted across from side to side  

(its the long dark bar at the bottom of the picture that goes through the a shaped lower control arm)


heres a clearer picture
this is of the rear. Again, the black bar mounted to the bottom of the transmission, its the spring and you will also notice the lack of traditional coil spring that would normally be found on a car of this type.

 

ps tell your bro to pic up a car magazine every once in a wile because apparently he does not  know as much as he claims  

For the record this is my brother.....


"K bro are you i-CAR certified? are you ASE sertified?

and listen. Z...0....6  not c6 or whaterver the *** you came up.

as for your chassie thing the chassis is elongated and widened to match the Corvetes suspension geometry allowing the 20 inch wheels and more wheel well area. Its not a Corvette, but if you look at it  bro its the same thing its based on it!.... The geometry is  almost the same the suspension travel is almost same camber is a few degrees off but still allows for alignment...... I can take a vetes suspension and use it on that ugly piece of garbage without much adjustment... I don't need to read you lame magacine to know this I take a class everytime a new model shows up so I CAN KEEP MY JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!."





LOL he just left!!!! .......but he did say some pretty ugly things as he was leaving.


Yeah.... Lets not get out of hand with trivial arguments; it ruins the atmosphere here.... Pointing and going "aha!" is no way of settling an argument... Personally I think its just a Vauxall which is a GTO. So they're selling us a GTO, but with a cool retro look.... Simple. No "aha!" no "told you so..." just a failed product rebadged and resold to the masses...  

But is that for the SS or the base?... The suspension travel and stuff???? Well I'll ask him later.....  

Wow actually i am studying to be an automotive engineer but you don't need to be.  ....i was just stating common knowledge. You can look up all of this stuff online. Tell your brother to look up "2010 Camaro Press release"  and look for  "Official Press Release" this will always tell the correct information  

from this document  Official Press Release
(this is not modified)

Body structure and chassis
The 2010 Camaro is built on GM's global rear-wheel-drive architecture, with a strong body structure that enhances safety, quietness and handling. World-class build quality and attention to detail are enabled by features including one-piece body side stampings and very precise tolerances between body panels.
Front and rear independent suspensions are mounted to the rigid chassis, including a multi-link strut arrangement in the front with a direct-acting stabilizer bar and a double ball-joint configuration; and a unique, 4.5-link rear suspension that is double-isolated from the chassis for smoother, quieter driving experience.
Camaro offers two suspensions. LS and LT models receive an FE2 (sport) suspension, while the SS receives the FE3 (performance) suspension, including a lower ride height. Each is tuned to match the performance capabilities of their respective powertrains, as are their wheel-and-tire combinations.
A variable-rate rack-and-pinion power steering system mounts the rack forward of the front axle, for more direct action, an enhanced feeling of driver feedback and better weight balance.

This is not the corvette chasis


http://jalopnik.com/398984/2010-chevrolet-camaro-official-pics-and-press-release  

I think he said its trying to be? or an economical alternative something or other who knows?... He likes to talk real loud and shake his head... He's egocentric about his job. I don't think I can press him further on the subject about specifics without fear of getting yelled at   , but I am interested in one thing... If the V6 pumps out 300hp and you could swap the suspension setups from the SS to the base.... I don't know we'll see......  The vauxhall chassis is not renowned for being the most agile so I don't think there's a chevy counterpart of the 350Z coming up....

Oh and you did put your "aha!" moment at the end... It's right above the link.... Relax this is a car forum. Nothing's at stake, just egos and fear of flying shoes (in my case   )

Does anybody know the price range????

here's my "aha!" moment.... (it's in the 3min 10sec area...)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKwyIrgZbzE  

Yeah the price will ludicrous, and for the first year, the car will be unavailable, but that what gm is planning.  If you don't order one now, don't plan on paying retail for it.  I know, the old man already ordered his convertable.

Just to straighten you guys out on a couple of things.  Gm isn't interested in producing substance, they are building for style.  For years pontic, buick, and olds were capabale of producing 315 hp power front wheel drive.  The supercharged 3800 V-6 could surpass 300 horse power by swapping the alternator pulley from the same engine on to the supercharger.  The only issue was the trans axle wouldn't live behind that kind of power.  GM even had a transaxle that would support it.  It was a drop in fit.  The transaxle from the Cadilac northstar V-8.  It never happend because GM was marketing the north star as the most powerful front wheel drive in the world.  The consumer got screwed.

Gm killed the F-body(camaro/firebird) not because it was to expensive to sell, they killed it because it was hurting the Corvette Sales.  Why buy a 46 grand corvette when you could buy 21 grand camaro?  It was a humliation.  Ford still wasn't producing a mustang that could perform with the f-body.

Its not that unusal a story either.  Remember the t-type and and grand national reagals of the 80's?  Everyone makes a big deal out of the fox body mustangs, but the truth is they weren't the hot cars of the 80's.  The Grand National regal was the end all and be all.  Nothing made in Detroit would run with them.  Gm killed the car in 1987, but continued the body style(G-body) into 1988.  Why?  How were corvettes selling in 86 and 87?  With there big fancy TBI V-8's.

The new Camaro will not compete with the Corvette.  I promise you that.  

The Camaro was killed off because it was only selling 40k units a year while the Mustang was selling 2-3 times as many. This was also the period of time when GM started to bring it's quality and global sales(new CTS) up and it would be too costly to re-engineer a new Camaro chassis. It was definitely a bad judgment call but they will do the Camaro right this time.

It is true that the T-Type/GNX Buicks were faster than the Vette of the time. To my knowledge they never officially published HP figures for them so as not affect Vette sales.

***
The Corvette is a body on frame design. The Camaro is a unibody design. Are you sure your(Master_Shake029) brother knows what he is looking at? Seems pretty hard to confuse the two. God complex, maybe.