check out this article - what do you think?  I personally side with the numerous people on the web that say this writer doesnt really know what hes talking about.  the GT-R is an icon, hands down.  considering Nissan will only have 1500 available the first year, I guarantee the GT-R will have no problems selling.


"GT-R has plenty of speed, but automaker struggles with image problem

In this age of Internet chat room “discussions” hypothetical debates abound. One that has surfaced lately asks whether the Nissan GT-R — the supercar introduced to Americans at this week’s Los Angeles Auto Show — can circulate the Nurburgring racetrack in Germany faster than a Porsche 911 Turbo.

For car enthusiasts, it’s a question worth debating. The GT-R made its first public appearance this fall at the Tokyo motor show, and buzz has heralded its North American debut this week in Los Angeles, including rumors of remarkable track speeds.

While the question of whether a Nissan is faster than a Porsche will be settled as soon as a car magazine gets hold of a GT-R to do with as it pleases, a bigger question remains: Will supercar customers in America write $70,000 checks to a mainstream, high-volume Japanese manufacturer when the GT-R goes on sale here next summer?

At the heart of the issue is whether the Nissan brand holds any clear meaning for consumers. The company insists that its credible history in sports car racing has established its bona fides as a carmaker for “gearheads,” and Bill Bosley, vice president of Nissan North America, asserts that the automaker is “viewed as a company that has performance as it heritage.” Maybe, but that racing success was always in racing series that were under the radar of most sports fans.

Nissan makes an equally authentic claim that it’s the new force in safety technology, on a par with Volvo. Don’t laugh: Nissan really does have impressive new technologies and a commendable goal to eliminate traffic fatalities in its vehicles. But as much as Nissan is accomplishing here, few consumers — maybe none — would equate Nissan with safety the way they do with Volvo.

Go off-roading with Nissan’s truck experts, and you’ll quickly find that the company’s trucks and SUVs not only have Land Rover-like capability, they also have some actual Land Rover technology used under license. These machines can slog through the nastiest, slipperiest, steepest conditions drivers are ever likely to find, but who imagines the next Discovery Channel documentary on the wildebeest will be shot from the window of a Nissan Frontier instead of Land Rover Defender?

To sell the GT-R in America, someone is going to have to explain to consumers what Nissan stands for. Wanting to be Toyota is not the bedrock on which a company can be built. After trying that approach, Subaru decided to become the outdoorsy all-wheel-drive company and Mazda decided to become the sports car company. Whither Nissan? Whatever the answer, consumers will need to be convinced.

“Everybody thought they would put [the GT-R] in the Infiniti showroom because that is the kind of customer who can pony up the $70,000,” observed Joe Phillipi, president of AutoTrends Consulting, who tracks the automotive industry. “These buyers are going to demand a lot of special treatment.”

When people reach the point that they can afford a dream car, few of them want onlookers to conclude that they have only almost made it big and had to settle for a cheap Asian knockoff. And in addition to the European image, there is the matter of properly deferential treatment by the dealers’ sales and service staffs.

Once, while traveling out of town in a $120,000 V-12 BMW test car whose transmission became schizophrenic on a holiday weekend, the dealer I limped in to offered to give me the new one like it on his lot as a make-good. That’s service. And it is the kind of treatment Porsche 911, Audi R8, Lamborghini Gallardo, Aston Martin Vantage and Ferrari F430 customers expect.

Not to worry, says Nissan. People buy $90,000 Vipers and $75,000 Corvettes in dingy Dodge and crummy Chevy showrooms every day. At $70,000 the 473-horsepower GT-R represents such a performance bargain customers will overlook the differences between a Nissan dealer and a Porsche showroom, contends Bosley.

Maybe, but here’s the thing — the Italian marble-floored waiting room in the service area and deferential treatment by the dealer are part of the package these customers are buying. Without those trimmings, they aren’t getting the full fantasy experience they paid for. Charities don’t auction dates with celebrity impersonators, they auction dates with celebrities. Customers want to be somebody important, even if they are only important to their car dealer.

And sure, Corvette and Viper owners deal with these very issues. But those guys are a different psychographic than the import supercar drivers. Many buyers of domestic sports cars were blue collar at some point in time. Maybe now they own the landscaping business rather than planting trees themselves, but they still identify with the blue collar employees at the Chevy and Dodge dealers.

A guy on the way to buy a Gallardo isn’t going to be impressed with the 50 Nissan Versa economy cars lined up in front of the dealer when he stops to check out the GT-R, and he’s not going to identify with the dealer’s staff.

While the company hasn’t finalized the plans, Nissan will sell GT-Rs only though those dealers who decide to meet the strict requirements for supporting the car properly, reports Bosley.

“We want this customer to have a special experience when they come in,” he said, as the goal is for top managers to greet and work with GT-R customers. “We want to make sure we have very experienced people in the dealership dealing with these people.”

The company should go further, insisting that only genuine sports car nuts and expert drivers sell the GT-R, said Phillipi, suggesting Nissan makes sure everybody working the floor spends one or two days in the Skip Barber (racing) school.

Initially, at least, the car’s specifications will sell all of the GT-Rs Nissan can build. The company can build as many as 1,000 each month, but the global demand for an all-wheel-drive twin-turbo 473 horsepower supercar for about $70,000 will surely exceed demand initially.

But to sustain sales Nissan will need to win over its Porsche-driving target customers. The German car giant tells enthusiasts that there is no substitute, and BMW claims to be the Ultimate Driving Machine. Nissan will need to not only decide what Nissan ownership means, but also convince consumers to buy into that philosophy, or the GT-R risks following the Subaru SVX, Acura NSX, Toyota Supra twin-turbo and Mazda RX-7 twin-turbo into history as expensive Japanese supercars with too little heritage to drive sales among image-conscious customers who can afford the authentic old-world article."  

oh BMW says that it is the ultimate driving machine, it must be true.  You switch from talking about porshe driving customers and trying to win them over to saying oh now bmw is the ultimate driving machine.  Flow, anyone?  Logical sense, anyone?  Where did this guy get his degree in jurnalism.  I'm almost an engineer, only 3-4 core classes left, and when i try i can write way better then this idiot.  Try to do a little reseach before you throw your own bias in there as well.

Your telling me that some of the cars listed below do not have a heritage.  The gt-r definately has heritage though, every since the skyline appeared and started racing.  

And to tell you the truth i don't care about image, i don't think the skyline should be about your image and social standing, it will be a relatively kick ass car (there might be too much electronics that dampen the users experience) that is relatively cheap.  It should be for people who want the legacy, the thrill to race the damn thing on a track on weekends, and yet still drive to work on the weekdays.  It's not for *** bags like 50 cent or glen beck.  It is for people like us.  But truely i fear it might be catered to much to the people who do care about image.  It all comes down to money, huh?  

sorry journalism, i'm going to sleep now.  Thanksgiving break, no more classes, no more worries, at least for 4 days.  So have a good thanksgiving guys, hopefully mom and paps will fry your turkey, the manly way.  Food dipped in grease, doesn't get any better.  Until you add beer that is.  

Anything with performance close to that of a 599GTB for a fifth of the price can sell itself. But the GT-R won't have the same heritage that a 911 does, except to those who know. People hear the Porsche name and think "fast"; they hear Nissan and think of Sentras and Altimas. But most people who actually know cars would never buy anything for just the "Heritage". For $70 grand, I want more than just a name and shiny wheels. The GT-R delivers; the 911 is an overpriced Beetle. Or it was, 40 years ago. 911s are for millionare doctors and lawyers. GT-Rs are for drivers.  

"911s are for millionare doctors and lawyers. GT-Rs are for drivers." I couldn't put that any better myself...

$70k is NOT too much for the car enthusiast who has a decent job... Sure most Porsches are bought with a simple check and no payments, but look how many other expensive cars like Escalades, huge F350s, and Mercedes are leased or bought on payments.. The true track junkie and driving/racing enthusiast who makes decent money could easily justify buying the GT-R on his income.

Now you don't see these driving enthusiasts in expensive new M6's, Porsches etc. because although they are amazing cars, they are not for the hardcore driver/racer, they are for the bling, status, prestige seekers. Thats fine, but this is not the crowd that Nissan is marketing to.

I think the GT-Rs intended target market is somewhat similar to the Lotus Elise/Exige crowd, but with an even more emphasis on raw performance. I know 2 guys that own Elise's, and neither one know a thing about performance driving or racing.. They bought it as a "ferrari substitute". I think this is not what Nissan is after; they are going for the real-deal hardcore guys.

For example, Imagine some 40 year old guy who makes pretty good money, has a family, and on weekdays is avid SCCA club racer. It takes a fair amount of money aside from the actual car to compete. Now imaging this guy wanting to step up to a new, high horsepower dedicated sports car, but without spending a fortune.. What would be his options?? Lotus, high-milage 911, Z06, thats pretty much it for off-the-shelf performance.

So whats he to do? The GT-R fills the gap perfectly. And trust me, there are tons of hard-core racers out there that race pretty inexpensive cars, but have lots of money in the bank and wouldn't bat an eye spending $70k on a true race machine without all the bling.  

GTR has proved it that they can send that M3 and Porshe back on the drawing table.. and it better then b4r my only complaint is they should havekept the inline 6 it comes with it heritage. but w/e atleast they are back.. and yes they have heritage..not such years but if you guys go and check the nissan gtr website they have been racing since 60's it just people didnt care to notice it.. i m expectin the upgrades son 4r these cars it will be great to see this car makin 4digit horsepower man they will eat that bugatti. and koiensegg ccx.  

While I certainly do not agree with this author, he doesn't have any legit points, really, but something in there DID get me thinking. That last paragraph, where he wonders if the GT-R will go along the paths of the NSX, Supra, RX-7, etc. What if it DOES go along those paths? Just read the last page of SCC's Dec. 07 issue (especially the first column), and you'll know what I'm talking about.  

So what if it does go the path of those cars? 4-6 good years and a phase out? Not a bad production run. How many supras, RX-7's, etc. do you still see around? Yeah, quite a few. For that matter, how many 32, 33, and 34 skylines do you still see? Yep. Again, the numbers aren't so bad.

And I think the article sucked. I kind of think the car will be competing for buyers in the vette and viper range more than anything. These guys are serious driving enthusiasts. Blue collar? Maybe, but not always. Lots of people understand that Le Mans and many other racing series still run.........wait for it...........VETTES AND VIPERS!!! They're good cars. The GT-R is arguably a better car, and costs less. Tell me it won't turn some domestic  buyers away from one of their standard choices, and I'll be happy to call you crazy.

Personal opinion, the author is #$%^ing crazy and needs to re-examine the market. He is correct. People who buy a lambo are not going to buy a skyline. However, I'm willing to bet that at least 1/3 of the porsche buying crowd will at least take a look at them, and lots of people who were buying used porsches and other performance cars in the 50k-60k range would seriously consider stepping up and going for the GT-R. I think it'll do fine.  

Hell, you're right, BigRed. I DO still see some of them roaming the streets. But if it phases out, more and more other manufacturers will be less inclined to produce a 4WD, turbocharged behemoth. I mean, look at all the awesome sport compacts we got in the 90s. Yes, they phased out, and they did give it one hell of a run. But think about this: where are their successors now? There is no sequel to the AE86, 240, etc. Sure, some are still being put back into the market like the NSX, but less and less so as time goes on.