I would just like to introduce my self, My name is Smus, I've been a big fan of SCC for a long time, and I was just skimming the forum for the first time when I saw this post and I would like to clarify a few things


The first production vehicle with a turbo was the Turbo-Diesel truck was produced by the "Schweizer Maschinenfabrik Saurer" (Swiss Machine Works Saurer) 1938

First and formost, Unsafe at any speed was written by Ralph Nader, so you've already proven youself and idiot.  

Secondly, the Corvair was a horribly designed car,

Thirdly, It's Porsche, with and E, pronounce it.

Fourthly, Germans had been using independent rear suspension since the days of Grand Prix racing, also, the German Auto Union Group, (which is now Audi) was one of the first automobiles to use a mid-engine/rear mounted engine, which was designed by Firdinand Porsche himself

Your comment about the RS Escort, well its a little weak considering they didn't start making the Escort till 81, not only that, but it only made 120 out of the box.  My old car had 150 hp at the crank, weight about the same, and it sure as hell didn't run 13s out of the box, better check your math.  There is a reason why Evos and STI's can do that

Yeah, the GXP's are pretty nice cars, too bad GM didn't see the exact same package with the Mazda Miata.
I want to quote you:
'Butt GM and ford know something about turbo cars they leak like a sith with oil seals etc also why build exotic four cylinder cars when a small block v8 will do it for six time less the cost and all day long with no turbo lag'
First off, you must never have owned a turbocharged vehicle, the do not leak like a sith (jedi force powers anyone?)
I think you mean Sive, and but in that case only has 1 t.
The reason they build small blocks was becase they already had the technology, and it was cheaper, thats the only reason.

Then you try to give everyone a history lesson on turbo cars.  Well how about this, Bentley, Daimler-Benz, Dusenberg?  Random names?  Try the fist produciton vehicles with forced induction.  Superchargers were the beginning of FI, and before you start going off about how americans are awesome with turbos and all that jazz, try looking at some real history and learning something.

About your "positive displacement math" and the 8 pounds at the turbo but 6 at the intake, who taught you?  Some autistic chimp?  You really need a lesson
You state that blowers have no turbo lag, please explain?  Are you talking about the old fashioned roots style blower or the newer centrafugual style?  if its the first you are correct, but there is very limited ammounts of boost you can run with that setup, if you were talking about centrafugual, then you're dead wrong, its just like a turbo, but run off the crankshaft, not exhaust pressure, which saps power from your engine off the line, which is fine if its a roots style becase you'll get it all back, but if not, then its just like a turbo but worse.

By the Way, boost lag is nearly non-exhistant with a proplerly sized turbocharger for the application at hand, its just that the power added will probably not be enough for people, so the put on slightly larger ones at the factory or in the aftermarket.

Also, you talk about oil lines and intake piping, you're wrong here too.  Your turbo needs oil, so in order for that, you need to tap the block and run oil lines to your supercharger, secondly, unless your running a air/water supercharger, youre going to get heatsoak, which diminishes the power youre getting out of your motor becase your shoving hot air into the motor.  Thermodynamics shows that combustion is more complete and powerful with cold dense air, ala boost through an intercooler.

Now, about the statement about top fuel dragsters, yeah, its true, but the old saying goes, there is no relacement for displacement, and thats true, you CAN build a pushrod v-8 heavier than a small DOHC motor.  I don't think anyone will contest that.
 
And now about hitler and turbos and his limos.  Chances are it was a Bently, Diamler-Benz, Dusenberg, or Rolls-Royce, which all superchargers I'm guessing, maybe turbos, but  he was definatly not the first one.




I appologize for the long post, but he was so incorrect I had to do something.  

Oh, about the oil line thing, I meant to say Supercharger, not turbocharger.  

OK SOMEONE NEEDS SUPERCHARGER DEFINED .
SUPERCHARGEN IS THE ACT OF FORCE AIR INTO A CYLINDER.
-All turbos,blower,belt driven blowers , etc all do the act of superchargen.
-Now the bit about heat soaked supercharger. I think you mean intercoolers and water injection.
-WATER INJECTION SYSTEM WAS PUT ON THE FIRST TURBO CAR, THE CUTLASS TURBO JET. ALOF OF INNOVATION CAME FROM THE FIRST TURBO CAR AND STILL USED TODAY.
-BLOWERS AND BELT DRIVEN CENTRIFIGUAL AIR PUMPS DO NOT NEED OIL LINES RUN TO THEM DUE TO THEY ARE SELF LUBRICATED.
-PIPEN IS REQUIRED ON ALL CENTRIFIGUAL STYLE AIR PUMPS, WHICH BY THE LAWS OF PHYSICS IS A NON POSTIVE DISPLACMENT PUMP.
 YOU SHOW YOUR IGNORANCE HERE
A larger turbo means you need to have more Exhuast pressure to turn the turbine wheel. This in turn means MORE TURBO LAG, NOT LESS. Though your right the properly matche turbo for the application does work but you fight the delima of adden more boost to the equation.
WOW VW OWNS BENTLY AND MERCEDES MERG DALIMER , IF THERE SO GREAT WHY DOES ONE OWN THE OTHER AND NO SELF EFFICENT. ROLLS ROYCE HAS CHANGED HANDS SO MANY TIMES YOU WOULD THINK THEY WERE HOOKERS OF THE AUTOMOTIVE WORLD.  

OK SOMEONE NEEDS SUPERCHARGER DEFINED .
SUPERCHARGEN IS THE ACT OF FORCE AIR INTO A CYLINDER.
-All turbos,blower,belt driven blowers , etc all do the act of superchargen.
No, You are lumping them together, a supercharger and a turbocharger are not the same, therefore they are not called the same thing.  They are called power adders, via forced induciton

-Now the bit about heat soaked supercharger. I think you mean intercoolers and water injection.
-WATER INJECTION SYSTEM WAS PUT ON THE FIRST TURBO CAR, THE CUTLASS TURBO JET. ALOF OF INNOVATION CAME FROM THE FIRST TURBO CAR AND STILL USED TODAY.

Um, no, Superchargers can get heat soaked.  Any piece of metal that is around hot things will become hot, then when it becomes hot the air that passes through gets hot, reducing the efficency of the supercharger.  Also, where are you getting your info about this Cutlass Turbo Jet?  I've found near to nothing, especially the fact that it was the first car with water injection, I highly doubt this.

-BLOWERS AND BELT DRIVEN CENTRIFIGUAL AIR PUMPS DO NOT NEED OIL LINES RUN TO THEM DUE TO THEY ARE SELF LUBRICATED.
-PIPEN IS REQUIRED ON ALL CENTRIFIGUAL STYLE AIR PUMPS, WHICH BY THE LAWS OF PHYSICS IS A NON POSTIVE DISPLACMENT PUMP.
The oiling part is true, but you keep saying that any type of centrifugal power adder is "non positive" is really splitting hairs, any reduction in boost levels is really minuscule, you're not going to lose 2 pounds in tubing.  And what physics are you talking about?  Because any pump that forces any sort of liquid (and yes, air has liquid properties), is a positive displacement pump.

-YOU SHOW YOUR IGNORANCE HERE
I'm not trying to be an ass, but seriously, you really need to spell and quit using CAPS LOCK ALL THE TIME!

-A larger turbo means you need to have more Exhuast pressure to turn the turbine wheel. This in turn means MORE TURBO LAG, NOT LESS. Though your right the properly matche turbo for the application does work but you fight the delima of adden more boost to the equation.
But the only way to add more power is to increase the size of the intake and the impeller.  The thing is, a supercharger is parasitic.  It takes power to make power, where as a turbocharger takes waste gases to make power.

WOW VW OWNS BENTLY AND MERCEDES MERG DALIMER , IF THERE SO GREAT WHY DOES ONE OWN THE OTHER AND NO SELF EFFICENT. ROLLS ROYCE HAS CHANGED HANDS SO MANY TIMES YOU WOULD THINK THEY WERE HOOKERS OF THE AUTOMOTIVE WORLD.  
I was talking about the history of the automobile.  By understanding the past you can understand the present.  You obviously don't understand what I was getting at, so I wont even try to explain.  

I think the point he's trying to make about "positive displacement" is that a roots type blower mechanicaly "packs" the air into the intake system, while a turbo or centrifugal supercharger "blows" the air in. The difference being that the roots type is sealed and air cannot escape back out, or at least not untill something goes boom. A t/c type system would never be able to do it to that extent, as its seal is dependant on the tolerance between the wheel and the casing.

Imagine you want to inflate a small plastic bag. If you were to hold it 1" away from your mouth and blow as hard as you can, for as long as you can, you would eventually inflate it. Once it reaches its maximum capacity, the air would escape back out the way it came in. That is your t/c system.

Now, inhale deeply, jam that bag as hard as you can against your mouth, and inflate it again. This time, once its reached maximum capacity, the pressure will build untill something fails, be it the bag, the seal, or, worse case scenario, your lungs. That is your p.d. system.  

i just wish Godspeed would stop posting...I think what it comes down to is he is wasting everyones time with his superb internet searching capabilities.  

You know, there was this person a few years ago that used to come into the automotive chat rooms and do the exact same thing GodSpeed is doing. Ignoring any type of logic and reason, using only "facts" that support his delisional ideals, and generally giving everyone there an unpleasant experience. If the moderators have any kind of respect for their own forums, they will ban him. Unless he can start being a productive member of this site, he needs to go away.

My advice in the meantime: ignore him. Nobody reply to anything he posts or says. Once the attention is off of him, he'll find some other place to stroke his ego.  

Hello
This is my first time in any forum ,and I just write this moved by all the garbage that Godspeeds is puttin into all the forums.
let me just say that Smus really deserve all my respect ,I think you spoke honestly and respectfully. Congratulations Smus
Godspeeds you should take a long time and find out what is wrong with you ,there is no need for all the hate and *** that comes out of your mind.
this is not the only forum that I checked upon ,and in every one Godspeeds just post garbage.
It is better if you keep your opinions to yourself.  

Godspeed clearly has some creative interpretations and political ideologies, but we are all here debate and converse. I welcome a different point of view. Plus, the guy has been posting here literally for years  and is the only remaining long term member (to my knowledge). I personally am glad to have him here, at least he has something to say. Its messed up that there are clearly knowledgeable people that only come out of the woodwork just to bash on somebody else (Duuuuudde, Smus, post more and welcome).
 This place is ultimately about sharing enthusiasm for all things automotive, not an exclusive club or frat. If you find holes in a theory or idea than by all means shoot it down with constructive criticism and logic (well done there everybody).
 Although I agree he should try to have a little more tact in sharing his point of view, Godspeed is a veteran SCC forum member and this forum needs every knowledgeable outspoken gearhead it can get.
 And many of the first gen Corvairs tragic handling problems were (mostly) rectified in later models. It ended its production life as a very driveable car.  

double  

@esthetics:
Godspeed clearly has some creative interpretations and political ideologies, but we are all here debate and converse. I welcome a different point of view. Plus, the guy has been posting here literally for years  and is the only remaining long term member (to my knowledge). I personally am glad to have him here, at least he has something to say. Its messed up that there are clearly knowledgeable people that only come out of the woodwork just to bash on somebody else (Duuuuudde, Smus, post more and welcome).
 This place is ultimately about sharing enthusiasm for all things automotive, not an exclusive club or frat. If you find holes in a theory or idea than by all means shoot it down with constructive criticism and logic (well done there everybody).
 Although I agree he should try to have a little more tact in sharing his point of view, Godspeed is a veteran SCC forum member and this forum needs every knowledgeable outspoken gearhead it can get.
 And many of the first gen Corvairs tragic handling problems were (mostly) rectified in later models. It ended its production life as a very driveable car.

knowledgeable people are nice, but so far i've managed to debunk everything godspeed's said with one typing hand tied behind my back.  he posted some nonsense about who (he thought) made turbochargers first, not to mention being completely wrong about the rotary engine, its racing history, or who even made it or holds patents for it. for instance.

personally, he's not yet given me one little spec of reason to give him credibility.  and that would certainly hold true if he was bashing say american iron instead of japanese cars.  

I hear you vanilla. He clearly has some bias as far as the USDM vs JDM deal. Everybody needs to play the devils advocate once in awhile to have true debate. Again, I welcome differing opinions. At least we have something to debate now right? Everybody should at least aspire to have as much conviction as Godspeed and the balls to speak their mind.
 Don't misunderstand me here; IM really not condoning his clearly biased statements. But I do appreciate that he has something to say. Again, at least we have something to debate.  

I need to clarify my last post.. I didn't catch the one where Godspeed was hating on the Honda Fit and finishes his rant with

  "ITS OFFICIAL YOUR AN IDIOT"

 Godspeed, nobody wants to hear that ignorant shite. Leave your baggage at the door before you post man.  

I agree that its good to have energetic, enthusiastic people to keep these boards exciting and interesting, but you have to have the correct attitude. GodSpeed is fine untill his opinion is challenged in the slightest way, and then rants and raves and resorts to personal insults when he can't make his point. He also ignores any evidence that negates any of his "facts". That doesn't do anyone any good, and can turn a good, informative thread into a flame war full of b.s. that will be abandoned because no one wants to wade through all the pointless drama. I've seen it many times before, and its the main reason why I don't hang around open forums like this.  

People need to act here as they would in the real world. Or, at least, with a reserved amount of brovado added to their normal selves. The problem is, people like GodSpeed can pretty much say whatever they want here without any restraint or repercussions whatsoever. In real life, well, I think we all know what would happen there if he were to act like he does here. Trauma unit anyone?    

Good point man. People need to come with a correct attitude to interact. That breaks it down nicely. I read you're saying you came from a domestic v8 background. Me too, and honestly If I had the money to spend on gas and insurance and everything else, that would be my main focus. I can sympathize with Godspeed as far as cubic inch lust. 400 lb ft is addictive as hell, and a mildly built v8 is an easy way to get there.
 Main point: stick around dude. The SCC forums can always be better.