Have you all noticed it? You can't buy a sportscar now a days.... All an enthusiast need of his sportscar is a stout suspension and a peppy if not potent engine. Take the tibby, you want the 2.7 litre V6? you have to take it in the GT level and most of them have leather and a bunch of crap you don't need... Want the 6sp? Thats the SE.

Now the New EVO X... You want the baddest one you have to have the auto and leather and 6cd changer and rims you're gonna replace anyways.

The RSX-S. 6cd leather rims and a bunch of crap also.

The mugen Si all you're getting different from the regular si is the suspension and exhaust system. you get a wing plastic and a bunch of mugen loggos.
But it costs more than a base 350Z or as much as a base Subaru WRX STI..... WTF?

Try to find a base model of the car you want and its not th one you want and you wait.

We're gonna change the rims suspension seats (maybe) and whatever fulfills your needs

They should all learn that we don't want chrome, and gizmos and navigation systems that we're never gonna use on the track. We don't need six levels of massage or satelite radio while we're clocking laps. All we want is a car that delivers, but can be made better.

Well I'm just posting my opinion this is Motortrends job anyways....  

Yeah I agree. Its all about marketing and money. If they could make as much selling race ready rollers, they would. Instead, its like you say, if you want the big engine, etc, etc, you have to go full tilt and get all the other stuff that you don't want/need.  

Yeah it really does suck, the evo x crushed my dreams of owning a NEW bitchin ass evo.  I'll have to find a slightly used evo ix rs, hopefully.  But hey pop the top down on a miata and there you go.  Such a fun nice car to drive.  I've never driven the mazdaspeed one, but i'm sure that is totally bichin.  Just hope you don't have to put anything bigger then a briefcase in the trunk.  Such a horrible trend to be weighing down great cars with crap.  The type r is gone, the evo has lost its roots.  I see this happening all around me, and it pissed me off.  Once we get something good, we water it down.  

Used cars are abundant. That's my market there.  

I actually put some of the blame on the major magazines - it almost seems like they are the voice to the manufacturers, and when the old softies at rags like Motor Trend  jones so hard over DSG-style transmissions for instance, the manufacturers take that into shall we say a more serious consideration than they should "OMG!  Motor Trend, Voice of the Generation loves DSG, let's put it in everything!  Man maximum, machine minimum be damned!!

And they you've got the yahoos at the manufacturer's marketing department focusing way too hard on "retaining" their customer base, thinking that just because we've gotten a couple years older, we must be just like these asshats at Motor Trend who've gotten soft and only want the image of a performance car.  "Better put leather in the EVO, these guys aren't going to want another performance car".  So what about attracting new customers again guys?  

People want luxury.  They're more concerned with having all kinds of conveniences with them as they drive.  The problem with putting all this stuff in a performance car like an EVO, a STI, or even the new GTR is that while it is nice to have its a lot of extra weight that the car needs to carry.  

I have to agree with DannyF about buying used/older cars. Engine tech and performance has come sooooo far in the last decade, and yet with every step forward in the engine and suspension department they saddle the car with another 150lbs of airbags and seat heaters (VOLVO C30 @#^@ you I'll keep my 26K).

 "standard features" are to blame. Unfortunately enthusiasts are the miniscule minority. I can appreciate having ONE AIRBAG. I really don't want 12 to envelope me when if I lightly tap the car I'm parallel parking behind. (I hate Volvo).  

 Even Lotus, a company purportedly dedicated to true sports cars, will not produce a mass market car for less than 40K. A larger company could do it. Hyundai might try with the next Tiburon. Nissan is supposedly experimenting with the idea of a modern ae86 corrola successor, and keeping weight to a minimum.

 I hate to admit it, but only a foreign (and most likely Asian) automaker could produce such a car. Bravo to the first company that brings back the affordable RWD functional sports car (convertibles notwithstanding sorry Miata)  

Here's something else to think about: Any car that were to be made stripped down with the big engine would be done in small quantities. That would automaticaly make those with deeper pocket than deep thoughts place an order for the new "future collectable", no matter the brand. That would in turn drive up the retail price, blowing the original msrp out of the water. So regular schmucks like us that would actually use the car as intended would get a small (if any) chance on actually recieving or affording one.

I remember when the Prowler came out. When introduced it was reasonably priced (for what it was) and once they started to become available, the price skyrocketed to a stupid point.  

I think I have mentioned this point before but this thread is appropriate. Just the other day i was just thinking about what went wrong. Because while more and more accidents happen every year, automobile manufacturers still continue to think entry-level vehicles (mostly sport compacts and cheaper sports cars and a whole range of vehicles between) need all this crap that get your eyes or attention off the road. Nav systems, coolers, cheap shinny interior pieces, non-functional scoops, bad lookin' wood grain,  and such just make me disgusted. I really think if any automaker stepped up with a car that is not completely mutilated and ugly, simply dressed in the luxury and fancy *** department (simply to not kick the performance-minded poor man in the balls and also to save vehicle weight), with some respectable power under the hood throughout the rpm range while also leaving room for improvement therefor sparking sales and a boom in the aftermarket. RWD, there is the kicker. From Nissan to Honda to Toyota to Mitsubishi. Any of them could single handily start a whole new category in the current industry. I guess I will include Hyundai...hey at least they are even talking about it.

Anyone let me know if you agree with this...Would you buy a car around the price of 25,000 give or take. (i would vote cheaper if possible) "Entry-Level" 2-door (or hatch) coupe RWD car with performance in mind, meaning the suspension is there, the weight distribution is right, good solid power-plant, with nothing a motor-head really wouldn't need in the car that would weigh down the price or weight of the vehicle and any technology needed spent be in the mechanics and not the "luxuries" or special features that are always quickly over looked and added to the performance sub-models.

Vehicles that could be resurrected from the auto graveyard or be glorified from its past days...look how well the mustang came back this last generation...
Mitsubishi Eclipse
Nissan 240sx
Toyota Celica
Honda Prelude
Toyota MR2
Honda Del Sol
Scion TC or completely new model

AUTOMAKERS...enthusiast don't want convertibles, overly priced luxury, we are bored with FWD, something fresh needs to happen the industry and i think its an affordable RWD. I mean just look at the drift scene...I'm a road race fan but look at the possibilities in marketing and sales...unbelievable really to think they haven't done anything about this yet  

Agreed. Driving a slow and nimble car at the limit is much more fulfilling then driving a fast but sluggish car at the limit, even if the fast car clocks a better time.

In the past there was less emphasis on “luxury for the masses” and technology was simpler, so most cars were light, uncomplicated machines, and thus better suited the driving enthusiast. Back then I don’t think they took into consideration the enthusiast minority’s needs any more then they do today, the cars simply were what they were and enthusiasts had  more variety of suitable platforms to build on and drive/race.

The same goes for the dedicated sports car market. Since there was less overall demand for luxury and technology was more primitive in the years and decades past, the sports cars were fast, nimble and most importantly simple. The rich guys who could afford one simply accepted the fact that a sports cars is a sports car, and if they wanted luxury, they could take the Mercedes to work, and leave the sports car for the weekend.

Today that’s changing, sports cars are now built with luxury being a key factor, and I don’t know why the distinction between sports car and luxury car is blending. I could understand it for regular cars, but sports cars should be kept pure. Those that can afford one can afford a nice luxurious car as well.

Back to the regular cars. Here is my list of the factors that I think influence the automakers to make these large, boring-@ass cars: luxury (today everyone wants luxury, not just the wealthy), crash-safety (there are so many big cars/trucks out there, people feel unsafe in small cars), driving-safety (oversteer is a big no-no for the general market, and fwd and awd cars are the easiest to drive *price?*), easy financing (Americans obsession with “buy now pay later;” people more easily can buy higher priced cars, and higher priced cars make more profit, so they jam a bunch of useless, high margin crap in there and mark it up.

I guess the point that I’m making here is that cheap, simple and fun to drive cars don’t really benefit anyone except us enthusiasts, and since we are small in number, most automakers will not consider us. I guess we will have to keep sticking to used cars for now, but I do believe someone will come through and save us. The AE86 re-make sounds brilliant, I just hope they don’t screw it up. The CRX concept sounded good too, that is until I found out it was some hybrid nonsense.

Thats all I could think of now, time for lunch.. See ya guys.

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I remember talking with various parents of high school friends of mine when they were looking for first cars for their kids. A disturbing majority of those parents wanted their kids to be driving HEAVY vehicles (SUVS) thinking they would be less prone to damage in accidents. It makes sense in a way, but where does that logic end? Should we all be driving bullet proof armor plated 7000 lb Crown Victorias? The safest feeling vehicle I ever owned was my first car, a stripped down Geo Metro. No power steering and totally nimble. You could not afford to be an inattentive driver in that car, and I will always be a better driver for it.
 Now that I think about it, there should be cars specifically targeted at early drivers. No E driver aids, 1 airbag and minimal vehicle weight.
    YOUR FIRST CAR SHOULD FEEL LIKE A VERY VULNERABLE GO KART!!!  Then you have to care about how you drive.  

thats so funny how you mention how your first vehicle made you a better driver because i felt the exact same way when i get my 97 danger ranger. The truck had no power steering, power locks, power windows, one airbag, 4 cyl. five speed, 2wd, no ABS, Work vinyl wrapped bench-seat. The damn thing didn't even have a rear-sliding window. But as far as learing the basics to driving it worked just fine and made the transition to a car that has double the horsepower, power everything, and for the 96 year model had every option checked possible.  

Yes. Knowing that if you crash your small car you will probably get hurt makes you automatically be a more defensive driver.. It makes sense to me. My first car was an '89 dodge colt. It was an excellent front-driver to learn on, but I had no illusions about the potential outcome of a half-ton truck vs. Dodge colt game of chicken.

On the other hand, kids that are given a huge, raised Ford f-250 truck for your 16th birthday will right from the beginning be tempted to assume a DGAF (don't give a f*ck) attitude in case they get into an accident.. Did you catch the pun? If you are from "So-Cal" I'm sure you did haha. But this isn’t a healthy attitude, and since kids are not really aware of the consequences of vehicular manslaughter, endangerment, reckless driving etc, it makes the problem that much worse..

Also, I’m not sure if this is from my track driving and racing experience (most likely) or from my histroy of driving small/unsafe cars, but everyime a potential incident unfolds on the street or freeway around me, my first instinct is to get out of the way safely, nothing else. I don’t think I have ever used the horn on someone in a potential crash situation. My hands are busy on the wheel, feet are on the gas/brake/clutch pedals and my eyes are immedietly doing a quick glance at the surrounding situation.. The only time I honk is after the fact, when everything is safe and I realize how big of a *** the driver is, and how much he could have ruined my day, everyone elses day on the freeway and his day with his stupid, reckless and ignorant move. Has anybody else noticed this about their driving?? Also, I have seen that honking mid-incident usually scares people and they freeze up for just enough time to crash, or they over-react and crash some other way, so it doesn’t seem effective to me… Just get your ass out of the way first, then worry about the others..  

Mitsu, everybody should have a primitive first car just to learn THEY ARE PILOTING A MULTI TON projectile. It almost seems like modern cars are engineered to minimize driver involvement.
 This is funny to me because I learned to drive in MN.  A good majority of people there have this idea that A REALLY BIG SUV with 4WD is inherently safe to drive in the winter. 4WD does not really help you in navigating a 6000 lb vehicle in a foot of snow. Every year I see big SUVS piled up into small cars on the side of the highway. The SUV driver looking puzzled at the front of his behemoth vehicle, wondering why the ABS didn't stop him from crushing the Civic in front of him.  

puc this is a very good point. Driver attentiveness is key and the horn will not stop impending disaster.