I am 15, just got my permit, and my dad and I have started to talk about a first car for me. anyway, he promised me his mini cooper until he traded it for a BMW 760Li. Anyway, he said whatever the resale on it was goes towards my first car. It's 23000 even. (it was a 2004 S in all silver, no aerokit, but it had the John Cooper Works supercharger, not that you cared ) so anyway, i have a budget 0f 23K, and i was looking at the E30 and E36 M3's. In case you haven't noticed, i am partial to bimmers, however i am very flexible. My parent's want me in something reliable, relatively big, and safe, so no Fieros, miatas, or MR2s  I want something that's relatively fast, handle's like it's on rails, and i want a stickshift. i also want very little buttons and perks, basically i want a radio, A/C and Power windows, not much else i don't need (i.e. cruise control, and power seat adjustments.) can you guys recommend anything? waht are your thoughts on the M3? E30-E36, especially the E36. thanks for taking a look at my thread, i really appreciate it.  

By the way, my only fast driving experience is that I race shifter karts. I am smooth, my times aren't the best where i race, but they're up there, i am one of the smoothest drivers at the track including the adults that race there (meaning i hardly ever crash) and my lap times are one of the most consistent of anyone there, just thought i'd brag a little  

This is what I come back to?

Dear oh dear.  

yup. it is.

The e30 M3 is a fine car, but not too many frills. It is also very fast and VERY unforgiving in nature. Even if you are very experenced in shifter carts, I would not recommend this car to any first time drivers. I have been driving since 1988 and I would be hesitant to open one of these cars up.

The E36 M3 has about the same power as the E30, but with more torque from it's 6 (the E30 had a big 4) and it has a more forgiving nature due to it's heavier weight and better rear suspension.

It is also larger, more luxurious, and quite capable of both taking you to 150+ and toodling around town before taking off for a cross country jaunt.

For a daily driver, I would suggest the E36.

Buy the BEST you can get.. these cars tend to get abused. Typical problems include the cooling system. the power windows (they can jump off of the tracks) headliner falling down, leaking sunroofs, and the dreaded rear suspension mount failure (they can pull free of the body)

The engine and tranny are robust, the electrics are good (except for the OBC) and generally the body does not rust.  

If you're gonna go the Euro route, why not look around for a good VW Golf R32?  AWD, Turbo, lotsa power... tons of fun and they look awesome.  

I would love to have an R32, or even a GTI, but because my mom was never really for the mini cooper, even with side airbags, and flying colors in the crash test, it just wasn't big enough, and i gotta respect my mom's decisions. the closest i think i'll come is a jetta GLI, which is why i'm leaning towards an M3. I've had people tell me that if i can't afford a new bimmer, I can't afford a used bimmer   i understand that a shifter kart is nothing like a car, but i figure it's more experience than anyone else my age can reach, just by improving my reaction time and helping me understand vehicle physics and countersteer and stuff...
i've been looking, and i'd love to get an evo, however the wing turns me off a bit, and  i understand that it's not particularly safe, and probably not such a good option for a first timer. i know that there are some mid-late 90's volvo's that were relatively fast, and i wouldn't mind a newer S40 with the T5 turbo (is that what it is?) however i think a good used one would probably run me about 25-30g's and i don't have that. Also i love the Audi S4's, and i bet i could find one in my price range, but i think that the E36 is my best bet, whether it Be an M3, or a standard 3 series. There's a BMW dealer pretty close to us, and they sid they'd check out the BMW for us for free before we bought it off of the private seller, just to make sure nothing's wrong with it.  

also if I was able to get an R32, i'd probably just wait a year and find a used mazdaspeed3  

Problem there is that, from what I can remember, the R32 is a V6 whereas the mazdaspeed3 is an I4.  

why's that a problem?
anyway thanks a ton guys, i really appreciate it.  

not a problem.  Just that the VR6 engine will be smoother and probably a bit more powerful than the DISI I4  

you are aware that the jetta is really no bigger than the golf, right? It just has an extra couple of feet tacked onto the rear for the trunk  

Both the GTI VR6 and R32 only come in 2 door, and mom has a firm belief (understandable) that 4 door's are safer. I hadn't really told her about the idea of the E30 til today, but she wasn't for that either. since the E36 comes in a sedan though, i think i'll try to find one of those. I'm also looking for an S40 T5, and a WRX. anything else sporty, forgiving, and fourdoory i should look at?
meanwhile, i'll try to talk her into the two door hatchback idea, using much the same argument as you, madmachine.  

why not the jetta turbo? I know its not much but hey 4drs.  

regular WRX, not the Sexually Transmitted Infection
actually i like the STI, but same problem as the Evo: the wing... plus i don't need anything that fast, to tell you the truth, it scared me just riding in one.  

yeah i was actually thinking about the jetta turbo, and remember, it will be my first car, so as long as it feels sporty it doesn't need to be sh*t-in-my-pants fast...it just can be