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Posted: 01/28/06 07:43 AM
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I'm sorry but the very first modification to the Evo MR is removal of the clutch restrictor and replacement of the clutch line. You cannot tell me that you have not done this. The car is not driveable if you haven't. This assumes you did not buy your MR in winter which would then mean snow tires are the first mod. Along these lines someone somwhere must know of a source for steel wheels (16s that clear the brakes preferrably) that will fit the Evo so you can have a winter/rally cross setup for 1/2 the year. Didn't anyone else buy the Evo for it's rally heritage? I prefer to drive my MR sideways through mud and gravel and the street setup is killing me. Everyone knows that SCC will default to some suspension stiffening as an initial mod, just look through past issues. Honestly, who really cares when one google search will yield many options. I love SCC and look to it for esoteric advice. Please help me make my MR a rally machine.
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0m3g4
Enthusiast
| Posts: 577
| Joined: 08/05
Posted: 01/28/06 07:51 AM
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The MR wasnt built to be a rally machine, from the factory or not.
The guys at SCC are showing a slow, step-by-step tuning of THEIR MR, not everybody's or yours. They chose to stiffen the suspension, you and your friends have chosen to remove the clutch restrictor and replace the lines. Thats fine, thats your decision, and its also theirs. To say that the car isnt driveable if this hasnt been done is ridiculous as it comes from the factory as such. I sincerely doubt Mitsu is going to put stuff on the car that would make it undriveable.
SCC is based in Arizona/California. There isnt really a winter there. Hence no need for snow tires, yes? Your entire line of thought concerning wheels and being able to rally it for 6 months is based on this and is, subsequently, discarded.
Also, everyone knows that the Evo has a rally heritage, but the MR is one of few specializations that Mitsubishi has made to improve the cars STREET and TRACK performance, not mud or gravel. If you want to go sliding your evo through the snow and gravel and get it beat and battered, be my guest. If SCC wants to do the exact opposite, they're quite welcome to. Their choice.
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Posted: 01/28/06 09:07 AM
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The MR is an AWD vehicle that happens to dominate on tarmac so it is well prepared for a tarmac stage as seen in many WRC events. As SCC says, "the near perfection" of the Evo MR tells me that it's track performance is doing pretty well. Why not go for some diversity?
You are correct that SCC is going slowly (too slowly) with their tuning, but as an owner of an MR having read the many forum discussions about the clutch issues and experiencing it, it IS the 1st mod required. Others have called it a launch controller and as a rally guy I'm less concerned with a launch, but I'm sure a track car where drag racing is in the mix would very much appreciate a quick launch. FYI, Mitsubishi put the restrictor on the car to stop abusive owners from burning up their clutches and then asking the warranty to cover it. This is what happens when the real world meets the potential of an amazing machine.
As for SCC being in California/Arizona that's fine, but I'm a subscriber in upstate NY that wants some help. However, in both of SCC's supposed preferred states you can find snow and gravel within a few hours drive. I dare anyone to take their Evo on a snowboarding or skiing trip into the mountains and try to come out alive if a snow storm hits them with the stock Yoko's.
As for the purpose of the MR I agree that it came from the factory prepared for the street and track, but it is not much different than it's brethren below it. Even SCC has said that the MR badge brings very little over the other models and is arguably not the most cost effective model to buy. I got the MR because it did upgrade the Bilstein suspension and I appreciate it as it takes the bumps better while sliding over them. As for the wheel issue I believe the brakes are the same size on all of the Evo models and why is it wrong to ask for a real world solution? More so I bought the subscription to SCC and I read the ads in the magazine so I have every right to request content. Again, SCC has made a boring choice to start with a sway bar and they are not imparting anything ground-breaking with the upgrade. In essence they are marketing a company's upgrade choice not theirs. Read the article: http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/projectcars/0601scc_lancer_evo/ In prior issues they have profiled many tuned Evo's all with sway bar upgrades so just go pick one of those if you want to make a "slight" improvement. I don't know if you own an Evo and I don't know if you are looking for some more esoteric assistance, but I am.
I also have to say that it sounds like you have not driven a car, especially an Evo sideways through a hairpin in mud or snow. Once you have you will see what the Evo was meant to do regardless of what you think Mitsubishi was trying to send out of the factory. Actually, they already sent what you need for street and track and for that use I would be asking SCC for a bigger performance gain such as more power.
Knowing the MR's heritage is not enough to respect it.
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0m3g4
Enthusiast
| Posts: 577
| Joined: 08/05
Posted: 01/28/06 11:11 AM
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urgh... fanboys.
SCC is a magazine that has to appeal to the common denominator. It has to appeal to the proverbial masses. You're obviously not part of that, and im sorry for you. SCC isnt a rally magazine, its a sport compact magazine with a serious penchant towards road-racing. Not rallying. If its rallying your MR you're interested in, im sure theres a magazine, forum or whatnot that will suit your needs much better than SCC appears to.
As for the clutch issue, I stand by what ive said. you cant say that ONE thing is a required modification. If you recall, SCC's MR is the only car that has remained as it was from the factory until now. This is first of many modifications that SCC will be making to it, so the clutch can, frankly, wait. You cant say that one mod is more important than another. Its a matter of personal taste, choice and budget.
Winter tires can also take a backseat as far as SCC is concerned. Again, you're forcing your belief onto a group of people, which isnt right. SCC has no NEED for winter tires, even if you do. If you picked up an SCC and found a car from Jamaica without winter tires on, would you still lambaste them about it? No, because Jamaica will never need winter tires. SCC has chosen not to get them for the same reason: they see no need. It's added expense for nothing. I agree that the snowbelt needs winter tires (being about 3 hours north, in Canada), but not in Cali or Arizona.
I respect the Evo because its beaten me and my friend's STi in the snow and mud many times already. As the navigator I know full-well what its like to go sideways though not, as you say, in the Mitsu. Your project is to make a rally MR. I respect that and think it a noble goal. But SCC isnt going that route. Tough luck for you, but thats jut how it is. Like I said, if you want help building a rally-ready MR for the snowbelt, Im sure there are other places that would be glad to help. SCC is building a road-race MR, not a rally MR.
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Posted: 01/28/06 04:05 PM
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In SCC mag there used by a US rally update every month by Tim McKinney. There is also the rally beater that Dave and Josh frequently write about. I'm sorry but sport compact car generally means 4 cylinder cars racing on all types of surfaces. I realize SCC leans toward street and track, but they do cover rally as well. All I'm saying is show some variety in what gets covered and I'm not saying they have to make their MR into a rally machine. I just want some (not all) articles about an Evo, MR or otherwise, that is set up for rally. The reason I'm so persistent about getting some advice on rally tuning is because it is NOT all over the place on the internet. Street & track mods are easy to come by. I know that my request may be in the minority, but I'm not the only one who owns an Evo and lives with snow and reads the magazine. As for the clutch issue I speak from experience and it IS the first mod. This is the reason why I reacted to the article (the wheel & tire thing is something I've been trying to resolve for a long time and just threw it in). It severely affects daily driving and creates enough frustration with the car that I can rank it as the #1 mod. Ask any Evo driver and as for SCC let's let them speak to this. If they say there's no need to pull the restrictor($20), then I'll drop it. You say I'm "forcing (my) belief onto a group of people," but really you are the one doing this by asking me to conform to the group. I'm asking for some variety and you're taking issue with it probably because of the tone I took in my original post, which was done to challenge SCC to step up and look at the Evo in more ways than one. It is too easy for you to berate me because SCC has you covered (by far). I hear what your saying about my request being outside the norm, but I didn't start the post to hear that other people are perfectly happy with SCC's coverage. I want others who could put the info I'm requesting to good use to support what I'm saying and for SCC to respond. I repect your right to respond to my post, but what's the point in trying to diffuse my opinion? I'm looking for answers, you're looking for censorship.
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Posted: 01/28/06 05:00 PM
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Hey, now, let's not let this turn into a flame war. If it's competition stage rally or off-road autocross you're interested in, maybe you should try Grassroots Motorsports. Almost everyone here reads it. They cover all amatuer types of racing, including SCCA RallyCross and NASA RallyAmerica stage rally as well as budget street tuning. The magazine may not cover EVO mods per se, but the message board there may be able to direct you to someone who can help make your car into a rally machine and some of the vendors there supply EVO off-road rally parts. They had recent articles about how to get into stage rally or RallyCross and how to build a Group N rally car. They are also building a beat-up '96 Subaru Impreza into a RallyCrosser and eventually a stage rally car- I know it's not an EVO but you might be able to get ideas and tips from the build. The website is: www.grmotorsports.com
The forum member formerly known as GTFan018 1995 Saab 900S 2.3L (Going autocrossing August 5th!)
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Posted: 01/28/06 07:02 PM
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first things first, the editors of SCC rarely get on the message board and by that i mean maybe 4 times a year, next they really don't take any of our ideas to heart as you can tell by the magazine, i mean we might have made a few but not much, they are still showing $300,000 monsters when most of us want everyday cars. next if you really want an answer e-mail them and see if they e-mail you back that would be the best way to contact them not to go on here and start off like your a long time user, with out even a "hello my name is" intro.
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Posted: 01/28/06 08:41 PM
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Going back and reading my first post I see now that I sounded a little worked up. Apologies. I did start the post though and I was, in response to the article thus the post title, addressing sport compact car's staff who haven't responded to my direct emails. Thank you civiking for letting me know that I'm wasting my time with asking SCC directly. Yes, I am venting at SCC and asking them to come down from their $300K world and talk directly to the masses, i.e. I need some less expensive steel wheels to fit my MR so I can stop trashing the stock BBS's when I go to club rallys. I thought this would be a supported use of an Evo and hoped that SCC, being in the industry, might be able to reveal a wheel source since I cannot find one on the internet, evolutionM.net, tirerack, or through my local shop who is connected to Vermont SportsCar and still couldn't find anything.
Again, I was talking to SCC directly, but 0m3g4 took it personally. The modification path that I suggested was intended to get SCC into my shoes and think about mods with a budget and a logical progression. I was speaking from experience not just an unfounded opinion.
gtfan018 has got the idea. Thanks for the advice. I'll check out Groots Msports.
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0m3g4
Enthusiast
| Posts: 577
| Joined: 08/05
Posted: 01/29/06 07:37 AM
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Ive taken nothing personally except your latest remark.
Im just trying to defend a magazine that I quite like. You made it sound like your needs came before anything else and that the magazine should cater to you alone.
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Posted: 01/30/06 07:02 PM
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I hope you didn't take it like this but no one is telling you that your opinion means nothing and to go find another mag. The reason most of us are here is because the mag DOESN'T have everything we need so we rely on each other. But getting some help IS hard when you don't introduce yourself and go straight into criticing a mag we all love. Civicking is right though, you will definitely not get your voice heard through these forums. Expecially if your a one man army against an entire fan base....
Personally, I love rally and I admire that your going away from the norm and going back to the EVOs roots. I don't know too much about EVOs but how about looking up the Mitsu rally cars and studing their setup for some insight. Can't hurt right?
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adamWRX
New User
| Posts: 7
| Joined: 08/06
Posted: 08/25/06 09:17 AM
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Hi, as for your snow tire rims, I would not use steel. steel is to heavy for 6 months of the year.
just find someone that is selling a set of stock rims that has upgraded.
I have 3 sets of aluminum rims for my WRX, I really recomend aluminum.
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Posted: 09/25/06 11:33 PM
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actually, steel rims are perfect for snow tyres.
Snow tyres are skinny with deep tread for a reason, to dig down into the snow to find traction. If you are running heavy steel rims on your snow tyres, they have even more weight to "bite in" and dig their way out of the slippery stuff.
as for being too heavy for street use, you really do not want to be driving at 9/10s on snow tyres anyway.
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